Do you think the game is Hunter or Scavenger favored?

I'm just wondering, because I've played both roles, and I've gotten curbstomped a fair number of times while playing both sides. When I'm playing Scavenger, the Hunters that know how to aim will often make short work of me, sometimes before I even hear the chase music.

But when I play Hunter, I seem to run into Scavengers who seem to have a bottomless supply of Vambrace powers, stay hidden most of the game, juke all of my damage and get revived over and over by healing arrows- I'm not the best at aiming, but I also feel like getting a down doesn't guarantee that you'll get a Recycle or an Execution. I often lose track of the ragdolls as they go flying, or the scavenger will be revived by a healing arrow immediately.

So, overall, do you think the game is balanced, Hunter favored, or Scavenger favored? And I'd be interested to hear why you think so.

Do you think the game is Hunter or Scavenger favored? 5 votes

Scavenger favored
20%
261_VipeR 1 vote
Hunter favored
20%
NuclearBurrito 1 vote
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
60%
EliPergoat2019The_Keyser 3 votes

Comments

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member ✭✭
    Hunter favored

    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

  • MonlythMonlyth Member

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

    Do you have a solution to increase the skill cap for Scavengers?

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member ✭✭
    Hunter favored

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

    Do you have a solution to increase the skill cap for Scavengers?

    Of course.

    Allow rolling off walls and rework the golden crate to this:

    https://forum.deathgardengame.com/discussion/1941/golden-totem-gc-replacement

    Additionally increase the interaction distance for scavs by 2 meters. Or just 1 if that ends up being too much, it's super small as is.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member ✭✭
    Hunter favored

    I also want the lastest hotfix reverted. But that's for non-balance reasons.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

    Do you have a solution to increase the skill cap for Scavengers?

    Of course.

    Allow rolling off walls and rework the golden crate to this:

    https://forum.deathgardengame.com/discussion/1941/golden-totem-gc-replacement

    Additionally increase the interaction distance for scavs by 2 meters. Or just 1 if that ends up being too much, it's super small as is.

    Well, I read your idea, but I can't say I like it that much. The Golden Crate bonus already feels underpowered for Hunter (It's pretty rare for me to run out of ammo; I usually just pick it up so the Scavengers can't), and your idea doesn't seem much better.

    Paying 4 power cores for a reveal that only lasts 5 seconds seems pretty weak; by the time you reach the location of a Scavenger, the reveal would have expired. Plus, it doesn't really fit the flavor of a "Golden" object if it isn't a rare or precious item.

    And allowing the Scavengers to get the GC effect whenever they want seems like it could end badly.

    Increasing the Scavenger interaction distance may be a good idea, though.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member ✭✭
    Hunter favored

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

    Do you have a solution to increase the skill cap for Scavengers?

    Of course.

    Allow rolling off walls and rework the golden crate to this:

    https://forum.deathgardengame.com/discussion/1941/golden-totem-gc-replacement

    Additionally increase the interaction distance for scavs by 2 meters. Or just 1 if that ends up being too much, it's super small as is.

    Well, I read your idea, but I can't say I like it that much. The Golden Crate bonus already feels underpowered for Hunter (It's pretty rare for me to run out of ammo; I usually just pick it up so the Scavengers can't), and your idea doesn't seem much better.

    Paying 4 power cores for a reveal that only lasts 5 seconds seems pretty weak; by the time you reach the location of a Scavenger, the reveal would have expired. Plus, it doesn't really fit the flavor of a "Golden" object if it isn't a rare or precious item.

    And allowing the Scavengers to get the GC effect whenever they want seems like it could end badly.

    Increasing the Scavenger interaction distance may be a good idea, though.

    The Hunter getting a practically guaranteed 5 seconds of reveals on all players is massive. Even if it wears off by the time you get there that's effectively just a free down for a good enough Hunter and it hardcounters bush camp strategies in ways that Drones simply don't due to their limitations.

    Plus like you said the existing Hunter GC effect is kinda lame. So this is an improvement.

    For Scavs the duration scaling with the # of living scavengers is supposed to keep it in check, so while its certainly useful no matter how many are alive, it's not so overbearing that it causes huge problems for the games dynamics. And either way I'm ok with it being relatively scavanger sided since this is supposed to overall help high skill scavs do better.

    And it is precious still. The effect is strong and getting it has the benefit of both what it does for you and temporarily denying it from the other side.

    More importantly though it actually fits with the games current mechanics, since the current GC doesn't work now that Scavs can't fight the Hunter. Having something which can be destroyed instead works better with how the game works.

    Plus there are plenty of numbers to tweak to make it better if needed. For example if it's impact is too high then it could be disabled for 2 minutes instead of 1.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

    Do you have a solution to increase the skill cap for Scavengers?

    Of course.

    Allow rolling off walls and rework the golden crate to this:

    https://forum.deathgardengame.com/discussion/1941/golden-totem-gc-replacement

    Additionally increase the interaction distance for scavs by 2 meters. Or just 1 if that ends up being too much, it's super small as is.

    Well, I read your idea, but I can't say I like it that much. The Golden Crate bonus already feels underpowered for Hunter (It's pretty rare for me to run out of ammo; I usually just pick it up so the Scavengers can't), and your idea doesn't seem much better.

    Paying 4 power cores for a reveal that only lasts 5 seconds seems pretty weak; by the time you reach the location of a Scavenger, the reveal would have expired. Plus, it doesn't really fit the flavor of a "Golden" object if it isn't a rare or precious item.

    And allowing the Scavengers to get the GC effect whenever they want seems like it could end badly.

    Increasing the Scavenger interaction distance may be a good idea, though.

    The Hunter getting a practically guaranteed 5 seconds of reveals on all players is massive. Even if it wears off by the time you get there that's effectively just a free down for a good enough Hunter and it hardcounters bush camp strategies in ways that Drones simply don't due to their limitations.

    Plus like you said the existing Hunter GC effect is kinda lame. So this is an improvement.

    For Scavs the duration scaling with the # of living scavengers is supposed to keep it in check, so while its certainly useful no matter how many are alive, it's not so overbearing that it causes huge problems for the games dynamics. And either way I'm ok with it being relatively scavanger sided since this is supposed to overall help high skill scavs do better.

    And it is precious still. The effect is strong and getting it has the benefit of both what it does for you and temporarily denying it from the other side.

    More importantly though it actually fits with the games current mechanics, since the current GC doesn't work now that Scavs can't fight the Hunter. Having something which can be destroyed instead works better with how the game works.

    Plus there are plenty of numbers to tweak to make it better if needed. For example if it's impact is too high then it could be disabled for 2 minutes instead of 1.

    Well, I think the duration should be long enough that a Hunter can actually reach a Scavenger before it expires. The skill floor for Hunters is already pretty steep, and forcing a new Hunter to just guess where a Scavenger is based on highly limited information is a bit much, especially when the Scavengers can deny access to this object.

    Like you said, a good Hunter is already able to find a Scavenger with relative ease once they have a rough idea of where they are, so would it really hurt that much for the duration to be a little longer?

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member ✭✭
    Hunter favored

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

    Do you have a solution to increase the skill cap for Scavengers?

    Of course.

    Allow rolling off walls and rework the golden crate to this:

    https://forum.deathgardengame.com/discussion/1941/golden-totem-gc-replacement

    Additionally increase the interaction distance for scavs by 2 meters. Or just 1 if that ends up being too much, it's super small as is.

    Well, I read your idea, but I can't say I like it that much. The Golden Crate bonus already feels underpowered for Hunter (It's pretty rare for me to run out of ammo; I usually just pick it up so the Scavengers can't), and your idea doesn't seem much better.

    Paying 4 power cores for a reveal that only lasts 5 seconds seems pretty weak; by the time you reach the location of a Scavenger, the reveal would have expired. Plus, it doesn't really fit the flavor of a "Golden" object if it isn't a rare or precious item.

    And allowing the Scavengers to get the GC effect whenever they want seems like it could end badly.

    Increasing the Scavenger interaction distance may be a good idea, though.

    The Hunter getting a practically guaranteed 5 seconds of reveals on all players is massive. Even if it wears off by the time you get there that's effectively just a free down for a good enough Hunter and it hardcounters bush camp strategies in ways that Drones simply don't due to their limitations.

    Plus like you said the existing Hunter GC effect is kinda lame. So this is an improvement.

    For Scavs the duration scaling with the # of living scavengers is supposed to keep it in check, so while its certainly useful no matter how many are alive, it's not so overbearing that it causes huge problems for the games dynamics. And either way I'm ok with it being relatively scavanger sided since this is supposed to overall help high skill scavs do better.

    And it is precious still. The effect is strong and getting it has the benefit of both what it does for you and temporarily denying it from the other side.

    More importantly though it actually fits with the games current mechanics, since the current GC doesn't work now that Scavs can't fight the Hunter. Having something which can be destroyed instead works better with how the game works.

    Plus there are plenty of numbers to tweak to make it better if needed. For example if it's impact is too high then it could be disabled for 2 minutes instead of 1.

    Well, I think the duration should be long enough that a Hunter can actually reach a Scavenger before it expires. The skill floor for Hunters is already pretty steep, and forcing a new Hunter to just guess where a Scavenger is based on highly limited information is a bit much, especially when the Scavengers can deny access to this object.

    Like you said, a good Hunter is already able to find a Scavenger with relative ease once they have a rough idea of where they are, so would it really hurt that much for the duration to be a little longer?

    It absolutely would hurt, since once he's there the only way for a scavanger to escape is to lose the Hunter. You can stall a bad Hunter but you can't stall a good Hunter. Thus there is a window where a reveal is dis-proportionally strong for a Good Hunter. Bellow the window and it will run out in time for the Scavanger to properly respond (which is what I'm going for), and beyond the window and it will keep them revealed beyond the point were a Good Hunter would have downed them.

    It might be possible to have it be a second or 2 longer, but unless we go all in (which would also require more cores to compensate) it can't be that much longer.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Monlyth said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Currently Hunter is the role with the higher skill cap and thus the best Hunter will win against the best Scavangers

    Do you have a solution to increase the skill cap for Scavengers?

    Of course.

    Allow rolling off walls and rework the golden crate to this:

    https://forum.deathgardengame.com/discussion/1941/golden-totem-gc-replacement

    Additionally increase the interaction distance for scavs by 2 meters. Or just 1 if that ends up being too much, it's super small as is.

    Well, I read your idea, but I can't say I like it that much. The Golden Crate bonus already feels underpowered for Hunter (It's pretty rare for me to run out of ammo; I usually just pick it up so the Scavengers can't), and your idea doesn't seem much better.

    Paying 4 power cores for a reveal that only lasts 5 seconds seems pretty weak; by the time you reach the location of a Scavenger, the reveal would have expired. Plus, it doesn't really fit the flavor of a "Golden" object if it isn't a rare or precious item.

    And allowing the Scavengers to get the GC effect whenever they want seems like it could end badly.

    Increasing the Scavenger interaction distance may be a good idea, though.

    The Hunter getting a practically guaranteed 5 seconds of reveals on all players is massive. Even if it wears off by the time you get there that's effectively just a free down for a good enough Hunter and it hardcounters bush camp strategies in ways that Drones simply don't due to their limitations.

    Plus like you said the existing Hunter GC effect is kinda lame. So this is an improvement.

    For Scavs the duration scaling with the # of living scavengers is supposed to keep it in check, so while its certainly useful no matter how many are alive, it's not so overbearing that it causes huge problems for the games dynamics. And either way I'm ok with it being relatively scavanger sided since this is supposed to overall help high skill scavs do better.

    And it is precious still. The effect is strong and getting it has the benefit of both what it does for you and temporarily denying it from the other side.

    More importantly though it actually fits with the games current mechanics, since the current GC doesn't work now that Scavs can't fight the Hunter. Having something which can be destroyed instead works better with how the game works.

    Plus there are plenty of numbers to tweak to make it better if needed. For example if it's impact is too high then it could be disabled for 2 minutes instead of 1.

    Well, I think the duration should be long enough that a Hunter can actually reach a Scavenger before it expires. The skill floor for Hunters is already pretty steep, and forcing a new Hunter to just guess where a Scavenger is based on highly limited information is a bit much, especially when the Scavengers can deny access to this object.

    Like you said, a good Hunter is already able to find a Scavenger with relative ease once they have a rough idea of where they are, so would it really hurt that much for the duration to be a little longer?

    It absolutely would hurt, since once he's there the only way for a scavanger to escape is to lose the Hunter. You can stall a bad Hunter but you can't stall a good Hunter. Thus there is a window where a reveal is dis-proportionally strong for a Good Hunter. Bellow the window and it will run out in time for the Scavanger to properly respond (which is what I'm going for), and beyond the window and it will keep them revealed beyond the point were a Good Hunter would have downed them.

    It might be possible to have it be a second or 2 longer, but unless we go all in (which would also require more cores to compensate) it can't be that much longer.

    Well, I think ultimately, if we have to create a mechanic that only gives a marginal benefit to both good Hunters and bad Hunters, asking them to sacrifice 4 entire Drone activations just to detect the Scavengers for a brief moment, then we should just look for a better solution to resolve issues like bush camping or Golden Crates.

    For example, you could alter the Drone placements, such that if the Hunter activates all of the drones in an area, there are no blind spots and the Scavengers have to disable at least one Drone if they don't want to be revealed, thus giving away their position to the Hunter.

  • goat2019goat2019 Member ✭✭
    Perfectly balanced, as all things should be

    I wouldn't say "perfectly" balanced but it's pretty well balanced overall imo.

    The reason I say it's balanced?

    • I have enjoyable matches playing as both Hunter & Scavenger.
    • Some games I kick ass as both Hunter and Scavenger.
    • Some games I get my ass kicked as both Hunter and Scavenger.
    • There is skill involved in both roles and I have seen my own ability increase over time as both Hunter & Scav.
    • Now that my skill level is above average in both roles, I do well in both roles most of the time.

    The thing that affects how well I do in a game is not whether I play as either a Hunter or a Scavenger. It is the skill gap between me ond the other players.

    I personally think it's easier to play as a Scavenger (especially for a new player) because you can be helped by your team mates if they are better than you (they deliver the blood, distract the Hunter & revive you) where as when you play Hunter it's all on you.

    I personally found it harder to "get good" as a Hunter. That hardest part of the Hunter learning curve is not the aiming (contrary to what some Scav mains would have you believe) although it is a factor. It is the "hunting" aspect. Finding & tracking the Scavs is the bit that really takes time to learn & is different from other games.

    The only major thing I think needs changing at the moment is multiple healers in one match. There should be a limit of one (maybe two) per match imo.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member

    @goat2019 said:
    I wouldn't say "perfectly" balanced but it's pretty well balanced overall imo.

    The reason I say it's balanced?

    • I have enjoyable matches playing as both Hunter & Scavenger.
    • Some games I kick ass as both Hunter and Scavenger.
    • Some games I get my ass kicked as both Hunter and Scavenger.
    • There is skill involved in both roles and I have seen my own ability increase over time as both Hunter & Scav.
    • Now that my skill level is above average in both roles, I do well in both roles most of the time.

    The thing that affects how well I do in a game is not whether I play as either a Hunter or a Scavenger. It is the skill gap between me ond the other players.

    I personally think it's easier to play as a Scavenger (especially for a new player) because you can be helped by your team mates if they are better than you (they deliver the blood, distract the Hunter & revive you) where as when you play Hunter it's all on you.

    I personally found it harder to "get good" as a Hunter. That hardest part of the Hunter learning curve is not the aiming (contrary to what some Scav mains would have you believe) although it is a factor. It is the "hunting" aspect. Finding & tracking the Scavs is the bit that really takes time to learn & is different from other games.

    The only major thing I think needs changing at the moment is multiple healers in one match. There should be a limit of one (maybe two) per match imo.

    I think the best way to adjust healers would be to limit the number of times you can be downed, so you can't just be revived over and over. Like, after 3 downs or so, you're automatically recycled or executed.

    Although currently, if the Hunter presses the button fast enough, the heal won't go through.

  • EliPerEliPer Member ✭✭
    edited October 27
    Perfectly balanced, as all things should be

    I agree with @goat2019, but I can say more, I think that the game is completely skill favored.

    I mean that, if you talk about both sides with the same skill level, the game is pretty well balanced. The biggest problem is that currently doesn't exist enough players to impose skill criteria in matchmaking. So you will find matches with hunters with a lot of experience destroying rookies scavengers, the same way you will find scavengers bullying hunters rookies.

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