Prestige Rework

NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member ✭✭
edited August 26 in General Discussion

Ok so hear me out. People have been saying that Prestige isn't worth anything. I've also heard a lot of people who want techables. So here is my solution:

For every character, in addition to getting the cosmetic:

  • P1 - Shared perk (more on that in a sec)
  • P2 - +25% more resources while playing as that character
  • P3 - +10% more resources on everyone
  • P4 - +15% more resources on everyone

P2-4 are self explanatory.

As for the Shared perk:

In addition to the 2 Character perks and 2 Unique passives you may also select a single Shared perk. Before you've P1ed anyone you already start out with a Shared perk so aren't down a perk if you haven't P1ed anyone.

For Scavs:

  • Starter - Hit and Run: Marking an object refills your stamina by 20%
  • Fog - Leach: Disabling a drone grants you a 15 hp shield for 15 seconds
  • Switch - Parkour Expert: Evading is 25% faster
  • Sawbones - Here to help: When another Scavanger is downed increase your movement speed by 50% for 20 seconds
  • Inked - Narrow Escape: For every 2% of your health missing gain 1% damage reduction
  • Ghost - Muffled Parts: Collecting crates and blood is silent. Your bolt trail lasts 1 second shorter.
  • Dash - On the Move: You have full control of your movement in the air

For Hunters:

  • Starter - Press the attack: Increase your damage by 2.5% per second while in a chase. Maxes out at 100% damage increase. The damage increase is lost after being out of a chase for more than 5 seconds or after recycling or executing a scavenger.
  • Inquisitor - Hold them down: Damaging a scavenger caps their movement speed at 80% for 1 second.
  • Poacher - Automatic clips: Your offhand weapon reloads automatically
  • Stalker - Thermal Scope: While aiming down sights without firing for at least 2 seconds, scavangers near your crosshair are revealed to you.
  • Veteran - Marker: Your first shot in each clip will reveal any Scavangers it hits for 5 seconds.

Comments

  • While teachables would be really cool, they would also be difficult to make, not just for balance reasons, but because there's only so many things that the perks can influence, so if they use an idea on a teachable, they won't be able to use it on a new character, even if it fits the 'theme' of the new character better (not without removing it from the old one, which would probably upset some people).

    I've looked at your ideas, and have written down some changes, outright new ones, and even a few alternatives to those ones.
    Plenty of these are also good ideas for new unique passives for other characters which haven't been made yet.
    If the devs don't like the idea of a 'starter' perk for this slot, you could always put it on another character. (notably, the Starters would work great as alternatives for the teachables from Dash and Inquisitor).

    I'll start by posting my favorites, the ones I think would be best, along with my reasonings (out of universe, and in-universe) for each.
    Just to reiterate, each character has one teachable associated with them, which is unlocked upon reaching prestige 1 with that character, every character has an additional perk slot just for teachables on their loadout (totalling 5 perks; 2 unique bonuses, 2 from the pool of 6, and 1 teachable).

    Scavengers:
    They each need to fit the Scavenger that teaches them, be powerful enough to be useful, without any specific one being powerful enough that everyone wants it over the others. Your selection should be personal preference, not picking out a 'meta' perk.

    Starter - Hit and Run: Marking an object with your bolts refills your stamina by 7% of its base amount.
    Fog - Leach: Disabling an active drone grants you a 15 hp shield for 15 seconds. This shield will not block reveals from hacked crates.
    Switch - Recycler: Collecting any crate will give you and any other Scavengers within the collection area 3 regular bolts in addition to its contents.
    Sawbones - Here to Help: When another Scavenger is downed, your movement speed towards them is increased by 50% for 10 seconds. Ends early if the downed Scavener is revived, recycled, or executed.
    Inked - Narrow Escape: For every 3% of your health missing, gain 1% damage reduction. Being healed temporarily removes this mitigation.
    Ghost - Muffled Parts: Collecting crates and blood is silent. If you collect a hacked crate the alarm will sound after a 1 second delay instead of instantly.
    Dash - Parkour Expert: Evading is 25% faster.

    Out of universe justifications for each:

    Hit and Run: One evade (roll) is worth 20% of a Scavengers base stamina. Returning 7% on-mark means to fully earn one evade you must mark 3 objects, and will be left with an extra 1% stamina (insignificant, but there). It would be difficult to pull off during a chase (but not impossible), while still giving enough stamina to be useful without being too easy to use (and resulting in near-infinite stamina).
    Leach: Destroying drones is definitely Fogs MO, the numbers might need tweaking, but are more-or-less good. Doesn't block reveals because if it did, it would become a 'meta' perk, where everyone runs it in order to completely negate hacked crates (if you need to open a hacked crate, just shoot a nearby active drone, which would punish Hunters who use them)
    Recycler: This helps in playstyles where you're constantly shooting off bolts, or if the hunter is keeping most crates hacked so the ones you can find are few and far between, so this will keep you topped up on regular bolts, just enough for one drone per crate.
    Here to Help: Bonus movespeed when moving towards the downed Scavenger means it can't be used as an escape speedboost, and would help people make it to downed Scavengers for manual revives faster, opening up opportunities for people without Heal bolts to have a better chance at rescuing someone.
    Narrow Escape: Percent damage reduction fits Inked MO, she's all about surviving damage. Since we know that % damage reductions stack accumulatively and also protect Shields (thanks Jordan <3), it can't be too high (or else Hunters could end up dealing less than 20% damage under certain circumstances), and it can't be fully effective during healing or else it would become 'meta' for healsquads to equip this (imagine how effective it would be on characters with other sources of damage reduction while they're supported by healers)
    Muffled Parts: Silently collecting crates lets you resupply after a chase, while the hunter is still nearby. The delay for hacked crates goes with his MO of being a 'ghost' and evading detection and will give breathing room with hunters that have fast reactions to hacked crate alarms.
    Parkour Expert: He's all about doing things fast; fast movement, fast blood collection, fast blood delivery, and now, he can teach the others how to evade faster.

    In-universe justification:
    Hit and Run: To teach Aspirants that teamplay is rewarding, the equipment guy hooks up your vambrace to give you a shot of adrenaline each time you mark something, to incentivize you.
    Leach: Disabling the drone siphons some of the energy from its power core into powering a shield for you.
    Recycler: Uses the wastage and excess NPI from each crate, doesn't matter what type it is because bolts are simple enough that they can be made out of the NPI from any of the crates.
    Here to Help: Equipment guy knows you know how every second counts in medical emergencies, so you get some adrenaline pumped into your system when someone is in trouble. It monitors movement so if you abandon them in their time of need, it cuts off your supply.
    Narrow Escape: Special bio-tattoos. As your body takes hit, they harden in response. Takes a while to get them to fully harden. Unfortunately they don't mix well with medical NPI, so they have to shut down during the healing process.
    Muffled Parts: Modifying your vambrace quiets down the interactions, and some code modifications will slow down the alerts.
    Parkour Expert: He's young, and fit, spent a lot of time watching a lot of harvests, he's learned a thing or two from the pros, and now he can teach the others.

  • Hunters:
    I disagree with you on a basic level of what the Hunter teachables should be for. Damage boosting and slowing on attacks are too powerful, the Hunters don't need that kind of help during the chase.
    I had a whole bunch of other ideas, but settled on all of my favorites being tracking related in one way or another. This opens up a new 'Tracking' perk slot (the perk doesn't necessarily have to be tracking, so future hunters could give other bonuses), to assist Hunters in locating people WITHOUT the (direct) use of drones.

    Starter - Fear Inducing: Scavengers within 15 meters of you occasionally whimper in fear.
    Inquisitor - Torturer: Your attacks cause Scavengers to loudly grunt in pain when physically exerting themselves for 8 seconds.
    Poacher - Blood Trails: Your non-shock attacks cause Scavengers to leave a blood trail on all surfaces they make physical contact with for 5 seconds.
    Stalker - Nature Sense: Bushes that Scavengers have recently passed passed through are more noticable.
    Veteran - Last Act of Defiance: When a Scavenger destroys an active drone or construct, their vambrace beeps and flashes a small red light for 6 seconds.

    Out of universe justifications for each:
    Fear Inducing: Helps Ajatar Hunters with locating people in bushes nearby. They're not skilled enough yet to reliably spot moving bushes or dust trails, so this will assist them in locating people that think it's safe near the hunter.
    Torturer: The Inquisitor is a religious zealot, what are lots of religious zealots known for (most notably, THE INQUISITION)? Torture, making people confess. They will make more noise as they flee, but less if they hide, making this excellent at chasing THE GUILTY COWARDS.
    Blood Trails: The blood trails will lead to them, but the Scavenger can mindgame by doubling back or looping over old blood trails to confuse the Hunter. Blood trails are already somewhat in the game, just not as a tracking tool.
    Nature Sense: The Stalker is one with the forest(garden), and will notice when something is amiss, she can teach the other hunters what to look for.
    Last Act of Defiance: The veteran is all about being supported by technology. Both her passives relate to tech-boosts, her ability is old-tech war satellite, and most of her perks are for drones. So having a perk that makes the drones mess with the scavengers vambrace as a 'last act of defiance' fits her. The flashing will be easier to spot from a distance, and the beeping will help with spotting someone close-by but out-of-sight. They don't last long, but they don't need to, just long enough to let the Hunter know vaguely where the Scavenger is.

    In-universe justifications for each:
    Fear Inducing: Since you're new and inexperienced, the equipment guy sabotages the breathing dampeners on the Scavengers masks. Rigs them to occasionally stop functioning and let their voice out completely when around you. It'll make it easier for you to find them when they're close, and hearing them whimper in fear will boost your confidence.
    Torturer: Special bullets leave a toxin in the body. The toxin doesn't really do much damage, but it sure is painful.
    Blood Trails: Your mask is rigged to track them via fresh blood they leave the ground, just like the animals they are.
    Stalker: The extra time in the garden when the harvest isn't happening has let you familiarize yourself with the way things should be, you'll notice when something is out of place.
    Veteran: The drones are rigged with electronic warfare gear, when they take critical damage they'll transmit a chunk of power to the vambrace of the Scavenger who did it, too much power and it causes an "over-charged" emergency alert on the vambrace. You can track that alert to find them.

    Some additional details:
    Some of the perks need further explanation to how they work, I'll go into details on these ones below.

    Inked - Narrow Escape: The mitigation is disabled whenever they have the effect of a healing arrow on them (in the bottom left) and for the same duration whenever they benefit from a health crate.
    Ghost - Muffled Parts: The alarm still sounds centered on the crate, not you.
    Dash - Parkour Expert: You still travel the same distance per evade, just 1 evade takes less time to perform.
    Starter - Fear Inducing: When within 15 meters of you and not in chase, there's a chance for them to let out a whimpering-in-fear sound and shake the bush (if they're in one). They could have a little animation too like they're shaking their head or something.
    Stalker - Nature Sense: When Scavengers move through the tall grass, the grass already sways. This would add in a particle effect of something floating into the air, like floaty green sparks.
    Inquisitor - Torturer: Scavengers let out (more) audible pained-straining sounds when they perform the following actions: Evading, Climbing, Jumping
    Poacher - Blood Trails: When a Scavenger takes damage they leave blood on all surfaces they make contact with (ground, walls, trees), except for water. They do not leave blood on any surface while they are in the air. If they are crouched they will leave less blood. The blood dries over time, starting out more reflective red and becoming a dull brown. It may or may not completely disappear after a certain amount of time.

  • @firstrecon5 said:
    Hunters:
    I disagree with you on a basic level of what the Hunter teachables should be for. Damage boosting and slowing on attacks are too powerful, the Hunters don't need that kind of help during the chase.
    I had a whole bunch of other ideas, but settled on all of my favorites being tracking related in one way or another. This opens up a new 'Tracking' perk slot (the perk doesn't necessarily have to be tracking, so future hunters could give other bonuses), to assist Hunters in locating people WITHOUT the (direct) use of drones.

    Starter - Fear Inducing: Scavengers within 15 meters of you occasionally whimper in fear.
    Inquisitor - Torturer: Your attacks cause Scavengers to loudly grunt in pain when physically exerting themselves for 8 seconds.
    Poacher - Blood Trails: Your non-shock attacks cause Scavengers to leave a blood trail on all surfaces they make physical contact with for 5 seconds.
    Stalker - Nature Sense: Bushes that Scavengers have recently passed passed through are more noticable.
    Veteran - Last Act of Defiance: When a Scavenger destroys an active drone or construct, their vambrace beeps and flashes a small red light for 6 seconds.

    Out of universe justifications for each:
    Fear Inducing: Helps Ajatar Hunters with locating people in bushes nearby. They're not skilled enough yet to reliably spot moving bushes or dust trails, so this will assist them in locating people that think it's safe near the hunter.
    Torturer: The Inquisitor is a religious zealot, what are lots of religious zealots known for (most notably, THE INQUISITION)? Torture, making people confess. They will make more noise as they flee, but less if they hide, making this excellent at chasing THE GUILTY COWARDS.
    Blood Trails: The blood trails will lead to them, but the Scavenger can mindgame by doubling back or looping over old blood trails to confuse the Hunter. Blood trails are already somewhat in the game, just not as a tracking tool.
    Nature Sense: The Stalker is one with the forest(garden), and will notice when something is amiss, she can teach the other hunters what to look for.
    Last Act of Defiance: The veteran is all about being supported by technology. Both her passives relate to tech-boosts, her ability is old-tech war satellite, and most of her perks are for drones. So having a perk that makes the drones mess with the scavengers vambrace as a 'last act of defiance' fits her. The flashing will be easier to spot from a distance, and the beeping will help with spotting someone close-by but out-of-sight. They don't last long, but they don't need to, just long enough to let the Hunter know vaguely where the Scavenger is.

    In-universe justifications for each:
    Fear Inducing: Since you're new and inexperienced, the equipment guy sabotages the breathing dampeners on the Scavengers masks. Rigs them to occasionally stop functioning and let their voice out completely when around you. It'll make it easier for you to find them when they're close, and hearing them whimper in fear will boost your confidence.
    Torturer: Special bullets leave a toxin in the body. The toxin doesn't really do much damage, but it sure is painful.
    Blood Trails: Your mask is rigged to track them via fresh blood they leave the ground, just like the animals they are.
    Stalker: The extra time in the garden when the harvest isn't happening has let you familiarize yourself with the way things should be, you'll notice when something is out of place.
    Veteran: The drones are rigged with electronic warfare gear, when they take critical damage they'll transmit a chunk of power to the vambrace of the Scavenger who did it, too much power and it causes an "over-charged" emergency alert on the vambrace. You can track that alert to find them.

    Some additional details:
    Some of the perks need further explanation to how they work, I'll go into details on these ones below.

    Inked - Narrow Escape: The mitigation is disabled whenever they have the effect of a healing arrow on them (in the bottom left) and for the same duration whenever they benefit from a health crate.
    Ghost - Muffled Parts: The alarm still sounds centered on the crate, not you.
    Dash - Parkour Expert: You still travel the same distance per evade, just 1 evade takes less time to perform.
    Starter - Fear Inducing: When within 15 meters of you and not in chase, there's a chance for them to let out a whimpering-in-fear sound and shake the bush (if they're in one). They could have a little animation too like they're shaking their head or something.
    Stalker - Nature Sense: When Scavengers move through the tall grass, the grass already sways. This would add in a particle effect of something floating into the air, like floaty green sparks.
    Inquisitor - Torturer: Scavengers let out (more) audible pained-straining sounds when they perform the following actions: Evading, Climbing, Jumping
    Poacher - Blood Trails: When a Scavenger takes damage they leave blood on all surfaces they make contact with (ground, walls, trees), except for water. They do not leave blood on any surface while they are in the air. If they are crouched they will leave less blood. The blood dries over time, starting out more reflective red and becoming a dull brown. It may or may not completely disappear after a certain amount of time.

    I would like to point out that the Starter one is the only one I proposed that would increase damage dealt. And it's in such a way that the better the Hunter the less useful the perk.

    This is because Scavangers attempting to tank a Hunters attacks rather than evade them is extremely powerful and frustrating against newer Hunter that doesn't know how to successfully burst them down, while an older Hunter would be recycling fast enough that the perk isn't useful thus making them prefer using a different perk instead.

    Reworking inquisitor's techable is fair enough.

    I don't see why Poacher's would need a rework. We don't need ALL of them to be tracking based.

    And what's wrong with Stalker and Vet's techables? They already are tracking perks.

  • firstrecon5firstrecon5 Member
    edited September 22

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    And what's wrong with Stalker and Vet's techables?

    In the case of the Veteran, most (if not all) weapons have reload speeds shorter than 5 seconds (especially in the case of the hunting shotgun), meaning it would be possible to hit the first shot to mark them, get a few more rounds off for damage, then reload and have another marking round ready before the highlight stops.

    Marking only on the first round in the magazine also means that it would require you to hit your first shot, which might be difficult for some hunters to benefit from it (and if you do hit them, then it's not like you're going to lose them in less than 5 seconds of the chase starting, so the benefit isn't that much anyway).

    Stalker is changed because it could be abused if not neutered to the point where it wouldn't be worthwhile. If all it takes is not-shooting for 2 seconds to trigger it, then if you get to a high point on a map (such as the water towers or the tower on the mining map) you could sweep your aim over the entire map and spot anyone you sweep over. Or be used on the move (flying over the map with supercharge while looking around with it).

    If it was made so you need to be stationary and not shooting then it's got potential for sniping, but not for much else. It would still have the problem of sweeping your vision across an entire area from a high location to spot people.

    If it was made so you need to be stationary and not shooting and aiming at a specific point, then it's been drastically neutered and is really only good for checking bushes from a distance, or when you know someone is in a bush and want to make sure your first shot lands.

    Poacher is changed because I feel like an automatic reloading perk is too powerful for something that can be equipped on anyone (I would like to see it as a unique bonus for 1 hunter though). In the case of Veteran and the Poacher, both have powerful weapons but need to be reloaded frequently or take a long time (lmg and grenade launcher). If reloading the unequipped weapon is made usable on any hunter, then they'd need to factor that into account when making new weapons for new hunters. The primary drawback of the lmg is that it takes a long time to reload, so they have to stop shooting completely for several seconds. If they can swap weapons to something else, then it wouldn't have that drawback.

    -Fire off all grenades
    -Switch to other weapon and continue shooting
    -Once the grenade launcher is reloaded, swap back and magdump

    or

    -magdump lmg
    -switch to shotgun to try to keep on them
    -lmg finishes reloading, swap back and magdump again

    I also came up with a lot of others, but only posted my favorites. Here's the others for the hunters you mentioned.

    Starter - Muscle Fatigue: Shock reduces Scavenger Stamina by 20% of base amount (1 evades worth).
    -Specified 'of base amount' since Inked has extra stamina, this would not drain more from her.

    Stalker - One with the Garden: If you remain stationary and without attacking for 3 seconds, your terror radius is reduced to 0. You may then move, but moving more than 15 meters from your original position will end it.

    Veteran - Exhilarating Grudge When you down a Scavenger, your stamina regens faster for 5 seconds.
    -The downside of this one, is that it requires you to stop supercharging to benefit (which means if they ragdolled far, you might not make it in time to stop a revive)
    Veteran - Exhilarating Grudge: When you down a Scavenger, your stamina will not deplete for 5 seconds.
    Veteran - Exhilarating Grudge: When you down a Scavenger, you regain 20% of your (base) Stamina over 4 seconds.
    -Granny gets excited when she injures the people she hates.
    -Temporary infinite stamina on down could lead to snowballing (get one down, the next within duration is very easy)

    Veteran - Cut Logistics: Crates gathered by Scavengers within 15 meters of you give reduced contents.
    -[Health crates only recover 1 bar, Ammo Crates give half of what they would otherwise (otherwise being with the perks for increased ammo gain), Power Core crates give 2 bolts in 1v5, 3 bolts in HwF]
    -This counters people using crates mid-chase

    Veteran - Tech Support: When a Scavenger collects a crate, it leaves a Particle effect of [floaty glowy sparky things] in the air around the crate which will move in the direction they went.
    -Lasts till the crate is reconstructed. The floaty sparks will sort of swirl around it and get sucked into a 'syphon'-like cone pointed at the direction the Scavenger was when they left the [10 meter] area around the crate.

  • @firstrecon5 said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    And what's wrong with Stalker and Vet's techables?

    In the case of the Veteran, most (if not all) weapons have reload speeds shorter than 5 seconds (especially in the case of the hunting shotgun), meaning it would be possible to hit the first shot to mark them, get a few more rounds off for damage, then reload and have another marking round ready before the highlight stops.

    Marking only on the first round in the magazine also means that it would require you to hit your first shot, which might be difficult for some hunters to benefit from it (and if you do hit them, then it's not like you're going to lose them in less than 5 seconds of the chase starting, so the benefit isn't that much anyway).

    Stalker is changed because it could be abused if not neutered to the point where it wouldn't be worthwhile. If all it takes is not-shooting for 2 seconds to trigger it, then if you get to a high point on a map (such as the water towers or the tower on the mining map) you could sweep your aim over the entire map and spot anyone you sweep over. Or be used on the move (flying over the map with supercharge while looking around with it).

    If it was made so you need to be stationary and not shooting then it's got potential for sniping, but not for much else. It would still have the problem of sweeping your vision across an entire area from a high location to spot people.

    If it was made so you need to be stationary and not shooting and aiming at a specific point, then it's been drastically neutered and is really only good for checking bushes from a distance, or when you know someone is in a bush and want to make sure your first shot lands.

    Poacher is changed because I feel like an automatic reloading perk is too powerful for something that can be equipped on anyone (I would like to see it as a unique bonus for 1 hunter though). In the case of Veteran and the Poacher, both have powerful weapons but need to be reloaded frequently or take a long time (lmg and grenade launcher). If reloading the unequipped weapon is made usable on any hunter, then they'd need to factor that into account when making new weapons for new hunters. The primary drawback of the lmg is that it takes a long time to reload, so they have to stop shooting completely for several seconds. If they can swap weapons to something else, then it wouldn't have that drawback.

    -Fire off all grenades
    -Switch to other weapon and continue shooting
    -Once the grenade launcher is reloaded, swap back and magdump

    or

    -magdump lmg
    -switch to shotgun to try to keep on them
    -lmg finishes reloading, swap back and magdump again

    I also came up with a lot of others, but only posted my favorites. Here's the others for the hunters you mentioned.

    Starter - Muscle Fatigue: Shock reduces Scavenger Stamina by 20% of base amount (1 evades worth).
    -Specified 'of base amount' since Inked has extra stamina, this would not drain more from her.

    Stalker - One with the Garden: If you remain stationary and without attacking for 3 seconds, your terror radius is reduced to 0. You may then move, but moving more than 15 meters from your original position will end it.

    Veteran - Exhilarating Grudge When you down a Scavenger, your stamina regens faster for 5 seconds.
    -The downside of this one, is that it requires you to stop supercharging to benefit (which means if they ragdolled far, you might not make it in time to stop a revive)
    Veteran - Exhilarating Grudge: When you down a Scavenger, your stamina will not deplete for 5 seconds.
    Veteran - Exhilarating Grudge: When you down a Scavenger, you regain 20% of your (base) Stamina over 4 seconds.
    -Granny gets excited when she injures the people she hates.
    -Temporary infinite stamina on down could lead to snowballing (get one down, the next within duration is very easy)

    Veteran - Cut Logistics: Crates gathered by Scavengers within 15 meters of you give reduced contents.
    -[Health crates only recover 1 bar, Ammo Crates give half of what they would otherwise (otherwise being with the perks for increased ammo gain), Power Core crates give 2 bolts in 1v5, 3 bolts in HwF]
    -This counters people using crates mid-chase

    Veteran - Tech Support: When a Scavenger collects a crate, it leaves a Particle effect of [floaty glowy sparky things] in the air around the crate which will move in the direction they went.
    -Lasts till the crate is reconstructed. The floaty sparks will sort of swirl around it and get sucked into a 'syphon'-like cone pointed at the direction the Scavenger was when they left the [10 meter] area around the crate.

    Fair enough

    For the stalker one it could be "if someone is near your scope for X seconds without you firing". You could still move but you can't just move it everywhere quickly and moving it slowly isn't going to work very often unless they are specifically bush camping.

    I do like Last Act of Defiance by the way. Cool idea.

    I'd prefer to try and come up with something else for Inquisitor and Poacher though

    Maybe put Exhilarating Grudge on Inquisitor?

    BTW one thing I toyed with regarding the auto-reload is to have it so the offhand takes twice as long to reload compared to doing it manually. That way it's use case is capped since longer reloading guns would get a larger penalty compared to something that is a shorter reload time, but at the same time it's better to be able to do something else at the same time if the reload is large.

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